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<  PRODIGY NEWS  ~  Fight Fire with Fire (feat. Ho99o9) - 11/10/2018

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:14 pm
User avatarGeneralGeneralPosts: 3579Location: New York, USAJoined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:56 pm
jonyintheplace wrote:
Yes, Mayhem's video only vibrates with each bass hit because the song has no bass in it. Yes, Liam has no idea how to write music with bass in it. Gotcha. Mastering engineers don't have to put any bass back in the track because the bass is there. Baffling, absolutely baffling.

Someone watched some drum n bass tutorials and became the bass police.

why do you take as a personal offence any criticism whatsoever to The Prodigy? It seems that you desperately need to like everything he does even though his best days are long gone. What Ekko has said, without sarcasm or bad words on it, is something that many people can easily see.

Sometimes I think that there's a competition about becoming the number 1 fan and that is pretty ridiculous.


Yes, because Ekko's response wasn't personally directed at me at all. You're gonna quote me, tell me I missed the point, but somehow this isn't about me. Then explain bass to me as if I do not have a clue about bass. Gotcha. Beginner talk, y'all. And what a surprise, Lil' Jony you are here to start in. It seems my link explaining frequencies set some people off.


Last edited by NEOREV on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:22 pm
User avatarPrivatePrivatePosts: 106Location: UKJoined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:22 pm
Danny_G13 wrote:
Ha, it seemed a surreally valid comparison. Someone releases an IP, and now the community modifies it to make it better. But that's usually making something great even greater. Giving it more life. A new level, a different attribute on that chest armour etc. But releasing pretty weak music and leaving it to the fans to turn it into what your work should have come up with doesn't sit well with me at all!


Can definitely understand what you mean. I think I just mess around with stuff at times to see what I can get it to sound like, and usually enjoy trying it. That's until I've played the track with my edits for about the 30th time and it's driving me mental anyway, or I get a headache because I've been listening to it way too loud.

Clearly modding is different though because they can swap out and change bits completely and cleanly, whereas we don't have access to the original tracks/parts that make up the music with this so we can rarely do anything anywhere near as decent.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:30 pm
User avatarPrivatePrivatePosts: 113Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:10 pm
TL;DR of what Ekko is saying:
the bass is there... it's just at a lower volume than usual for Liam's productions
and you need to really pump your sound system to feel it.

But most people don't have expensive sound systems.
Hell, most people listen to their music on shitty, cheap headphones...
A lot of modern hip hop accounts for this. (especially trap producers).

Not surprised that a lot of people are complaining.


I like the track and i'm getting a good sub presence even on cheap old Creative speakers...
but only after turning up the bass volume for a subwoofer workout.
Without fiddling with the EQ, the track feels... "empty".


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:37 pm
User avatarProdigious ArabPosts: 3802Location: The Dark SideJoined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:22 pm
skhelllter wrote:
TL;DR of what Ekko is saying:
the bass is there... it's just at a lower volume than usual for Liam's productions
and you need to really pump your sound system to feel it.

But most people don't have expensive sound systems.
Hell, most people listen to their music on shitty, cheap headphones...
A lot of modern hip hop accounts for this. (especially trap producers).

Not surprised that a lot of people are complaining.


I like the track and i'm getting a good sub presence even on cheap old Creative speakers...
but only after turning up the bass volume for a subwoofer workout.
Without fiddling with the EQ, the track feels... "empty".



On my soundbar(2017 Samsung curved soundbar)/headphones(Sennheiser HD1 and Beats studio wireless 2)/car(full harman kardon) the bass in LUTS and NS1 are much stronger than FFWF but doesn't mean that it has zero bass, it's just weaker than the 2 other songs.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:38 pm
User avatarPrivatePrivatePosts: 113Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:10 pm
^THAT.

Now can everyone plz stop arguing?


the noisiness in this track reminds me of good old Public Enemy tracks. :Firestarter:
And we know how Liam adores that old Bomb Squad sound.


Last edited by skhelllter on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:39 pm
User avatarGruntGruntPosts: 16Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:05 am
Damn. Myself and maybe one or two others mention that this track is lacking in the low end a lil bit and people go all “mythbusters” over it.

Yeah there is bass. For fuck sakes. A couple of us have just mentioned it could’ve done with a bit more. Yeah I got a good set up at home. And yeah after having the same settings for NS1 and LUTS (and sounding perfect) I feel I gotta crank up the Bass a bit for FFWF.

Maybe the “moaners” do have a point about how defensive a few of you guys get.

Once again.

I like this track.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:16 pm
User avatarColonelColonelPosts: 875Location: Québec (Montréal)Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:46 am
You're suppose to play this track loud.....LOUD! There is a lot of Bass, just play it LOUD! Or maybe new speakers? Cause this shit makes my fucking apartment shake, and it's not a small apartment :rofl:

I know what yall want, you want the SMBU Bassdrum and Funky SHit Bassdrum. It's just not the same type of beats, but the bass is there! Expect change peeps! EMBRACE THE CHANGE!

GOOD JOB LIAM! :guns:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:08 am
User avatarGruntGruntPosts: 16Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:05 am
Ahhh I’ve been doing it all wrong all this time MB... playing my prodigy music on tiny laptop speakers inside my huge empty mansion. That’s why my windows aren’t shaking. Gotcha.

Lol. Yes me and the other dudes that made a simple observation must have shit speakers.

This place...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:43 am
User avatarGeneralGeneralPosts: 3579Location: New York, USAJoined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:56 pm
Molotov_Beatz wrote:
I know what yall want, you want the SMBU Bassdrum and Funky SHit Bassdrum. It's just not the same type of beats, but the bass is there! Expect change peeps! EMBRACE THE CHANGE!


Image



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:59 am
User avatarColonelColonelPosts: 875Location: Québec (Montréal)Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:46 am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :guns: :guns: :guns:


JUST TAKE IT YO! THE BOYS ARE OLD! ITS STILL GOOD FUCKING MUSIC! I GOTTA ADMIT, I HAD MY LIL BRO LISTEN TO IT AND HE SAID ''HURTS MY HEAD AND EARS''.....SO ITS A PASS! :rofl:

:Firestarter: :Firestarter: FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE :angel:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:03 am
User avatarColonelColonelPosts: 875Location: Québec (Montréal)Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:46 am
TheLastNinja wrote:
Ahhh I’ve been doing it all wrong all this time MB... playing my prodigy music on tiny laptop speakers inside my huge empty mansion. That’s why my windows aren’t shaking. Gotcha.

Lol. Yes me and the other dudes that made a simple observation must have shit speakers.

This place...



GOD EVERYTHING IS EASY WITH YOU! DA FUCK YOU DOING USING LAPTOP SPEAKERS MAYNNNNE? LOOOOL


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:08 am
User avatarGruntGruntPosts: 16Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:05 am
OK CRANK THOSE CAPS.

ITS FUNNY.

I know I haven’t been active for a long time, I don’t know why I did to be honest.

Seriously, you guys... you are worse than the fucking “moaners”.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:10 am
User avatarGeneralGeneralPosts: 1278Location: RomâniaJoined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:58 am
Wait a minute, are guys talking about bass?



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:04 am
User avatarGeneralGeneralPosts: 2744Location: italyJoined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:44 pm
NEOREV wrote:
Molotov_Beatz wrote:
I know what yall want, you want the SMBU Bassdrum and Funky SHit Bassdrum. It's just not the same type of beats, but the bass is there! Expect change peeps! EMBRACE THE CHANGE!


Image


You are completely right and this is the main problem of everyone here.
I think we need first to "absorb" and give time to what Liam produces, before giving a final opinion of each track.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:59 am
SergeantSergeantPosts: 463Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:38 am
Ekko wrote:

Ah, the Internet. Or: "You can be a specialist, too!"

All of you who are judging "bass" solo by looking at a fft or a spectrum analyzer or some light up the room-gadget: You are completely missing the point. Power in bass, as phatness in drums, is mainly a perceived acoustic thing. Everyone can make a track with 10 HZ at 0dBfs and none of you will ever hear that shit. It's not about how loud something is at what frequency. That's beginner talk. It's about bass performance and this track performs badly, just because the perceived bass authority isn't there. If you want effective bass / overall energy distribution, look at what contemporary D&B does. The effective use of bass is about tricking you into perceiving more of it than there is. And the less there is (without sacrificing the meat of it, obv.), the louder you can go, which in turn, if you know what you're doing, makes the whole tune and its low end seem louder. Google residual effect or just check out some master class of what Ed Rush or Reso are doing. Howlett has been overtaken long time ago and the best mixing and mastering engineers can't pump in what he missed. This needs to be fixed on arrangement and composition levels. Something that Holwett doesn't seem interested anymore. And it's not the job of a mastering engineer to put bass in a track that doesn't work well with in low end.


NEOREV wrote:
Yes, Mayhem's video only vibrates with each bass hit because the song has no bass in it. Yes, Liam has no idea how to write music with bass in it. Gotcha. Mastering engineers don't have to put any bass back in the track because the bass is there. Baffling, absolutely baffling.

Someone watched some drum n bass tutorials and became the bass police. Beginner talk.


Nope. A "vibrating video" doesn't mean shit in terms of bass authority. It's a visual interpretation.

Again: This is about PERCEIVED bass. Which is the fun part of bass. While this track may technically go down low and loud here and there (I'm sure it does) it doesn't mean shit if people come telling you your track sounds weak in its supposed to be fierce and dirty sounding, filthy, filthy nether regions. Which is what happened here.

In case you missed this earlier point: Making a subby, subby sine wave is easy. It's 5 min of work if you know what you're doing. But if it's not layered right with audible information on top, it will feel just like that: A typical, flat sounding sub that's monodimensional. Looking good on spectrum analyzer? Sure! Will it light up a room with your Arduino? Yeah! Fun to listen to? Meh. Sounding phat and round and full? Not at all.

Easiest way is to just put the higher parts of a kick there, like Liam did here on FFWF, which is totally okay if there's supporting bass (aka a surrounding bassline or some sort of glorified 808 hit as in SMBU or whatsoever).
But there's nothing of that sort in this tune, leaving it feeling empty 'down there'.

"Liam has no idea how to write music with bass in it" is overcooking my statement. He very likely doesn't know how to frequency-sculpt. As much as I don't like Deadmau5 or most of his music, this guy has figured out a very musical way of sculpting a homogenous frequency image. It just "sits". It's good engineering. I don't think Liam likes to spend time on properly sculpting a track. On various occasions he made it clear he's bored of the more technical stuff. Which is, of course, totally alright and understandable. It doesn't help the music, though, which feels like someone didn't want (or know how) to put in the last 20% of effort to make it as funky as possible.

And yes: The job of a mastering engineer is NOT to put bass in a track that doesn't do it right by itself. Mastering is refining and improving, not repairing. People these days tend to forget that and send in shoddily mixed shit as mp3s, because of ideas like "mastering will take care of it" (or "let's fix it in the mix", one stage earlier). Get it right while writing the tune and see how everyone after you improves your stuff even further until it becomes amazing.


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